Nokia 5530XM Prototype Preview (Good News for Nokia 5800 users)

[SkiesOfAzel]

That isnt exactly a positive point about Nokia.
 Apple is gaining ground and practically printing money. Whats nokia doing? It seems like theyve learned nothing from their situation.

Like reclam said, releasing a new device that is similar but a has better features and hardware for less money and then delaying needed updates to what should be a higher priority phone because of it is two mistakes at once.

If youre making tons of money and gaining market share you can afford mistakes/bad decisions. Look at Apple and RIM. If youre bleeding, you simply cant.

  You should take care not to compare apples to oranges (pun intended ). Apple was able to offer updates simply because they have one and only platform to support. Even relatively few changes to the hardware need to be taken care of in the firmware as you can see with the multitude of bugs that most n97 users experience everyday. Branching is another serious problem for Nokia right now. They have to keep bugfixing s60v5, improving on symbian ^2 , developing screenplay in time for symbian ^3 and rewriting the UI for symbian ^4, not to mention developing the maemo platform (A linux based platform) for the N900 in time for q4. Apple only has one platform to develop, yet offers significant updates once each year and you are complaining because you might get your updates one month after the 5530 early adopters will. The fact that they still intend to support the 5800 with new features amidst all this chaos, should make you feel a little less bitter.

  As for  the 5530 having better hardware , with the exception of the cpu everything else is worse, not better. The 5800 has a slower processor because it came out 9 months ago, maybe i should also complain that my N70 ,a high end phone in the past, has a slower cpu than the midrange 5800 . The 5530 may look similar to you but is targeting a different market share than the 5800. There are markets that don't have 3g or have but is really expensive. Nokia also had to answer the LG Cookie and the Samsung Star with a similarly sized and priced phone. Besides, cheaper symbian s60v5 phones mean more adoption , and that's a good thing for the 5800.

  Since you talked about market share, in the smartphone segment Nokia has actually gained some ground in q2 and the 5800 is the top selling smartphone in Europe. And they managed to do that with just a half backed s60v5.

[papped]

  Since you talked about market share, in the smartphone segment Nokia has actually gained some ground in q2 and the 5800 is the top selling smartphone in Europe. And they managed to do that with just a half backed s60v5.

We will see if that holds up long term.  Is gaining marketshare and losing 66% of your earnings a worthwhile tradeoff?  Maybe if you have a ton of $$ to burn....

If you're trying to convince me that Nokia is on the path to success, you're wasting your time though.  My opinion doesn't affect whether or not Nokia is headed in a good direction.  The 5530 should not have a faster cpu because it shouldn't exist.  Doesn't matter when it came out, it shouldn't have come out because they lacked the ability to update current models with new features and release that device at the same time.

Which makes more sense:
1) Update existing models for stability and feature fixes (some of which already exist on other Nokia devices).
2) Release an entirely new device that is a downgrade from your current one, but has better hardware in some aspects and features the upgraded model doesn't have.  Then push back the updates on other devices because you can't support it all at once.

Yeah...

[SkiesOfAzel]

We will see if that holds up long term.  Is gaining marketshare and losing 66% of your earnings a worthwhile tradeoff?  Maybe if you have a ton of $$ to burn....

  They have lost earnings not because the people don't buy Nokia phones, they don't buy phones period. Maybe that recession thingy i hear everywhere i turn my head has something to do with it...

If you're trying to convince me that Nokia is on the path to success, you're wasting your time though.  My opinion doesn't affect whether or not Nokia is headed in a good direction.  The 5530 should not have a faster cpu because it shouldn't exist.  Doesn't matter when it came out, it shouldn't have come out because they lacked the ability to update current models with new features and release that device at the same time.

Which makes more sense:
1) Update existing models for stability and feature fixes (some of which already exist on other Nokia devices).
2) Release an entirely new device that is a downgrade from your current one, but has better hardware in some aspects and features the upgraded model doesn't have.  Then push back the updates on other devices because you can't support it all at once.

Yeah...

  Here we will agree to disagree. Right now mid to low end is where the game is and if Nokia wants to keep making profit they can't afford to delay introducing a contender for that segment. I am not saying that you should care for the well being of Nokia , but companies are in this to make profit and these are hard times for them, so i find it logical that they would put their survival above your satisfaction.

[papped]

That's the reason I posted it though.  I can switch phones tomorrow and not care about Nokia 1 bit.  The reason I posted it is because I think the road they are taking is bad for their survival.

My preference has very little to do with it since I'm likely to switch away from Nokia for good anyways.

Low to mid range is their profitable area?  Fine, then why introduce the N97?  It's not actually a high end device, it's just priced like one and is getting smashed hardware wise by multiple companies.  They could have spent those resources on releasing 2-3 low to mid range phones...

[colapse]

http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_5530_xpressmusic-2832.php

This is a full review. Very useful.

[hary536]

What would you say for Apple who introducted the same iphone 3g for $99 when lot of consumers would have locked into iphone 3G just before couple of months for $199.
Also, i agree with other poster, that 5530 is meant to compete in lower end phone segment in emerging markets like India, China, etc.

Also, N97 was released to compete with Apple and others, as they can't also afford to stay out of the game in higher segment. Apple is competing only in higher segment. Nokia is competing in all segments from lower, mid and  higher ends.

Also, if i was Nokia think tank member, i would like to afford to lose one customer like you who is dissatisfied with a new model with a better CPU, in favor of more satisfied customers in lower and mid range market.

Remember its easier for you to say than to do it in practice. I think Nokia is thinking of longer term and not just shorter term for just some customers like you, who are making such a big issue.

That's the reason I posted it though.  I can switch phones tomorrow and not care about Nokia 1 bit.  The reason I posted it is because I think the road they are taking is bad for their survival.

My preference has very little to do with it since I'm likely to switch away from Nokia for good anyways.

Low to mid range is their profitable area?  Fine, then why introduce the N97?  It's not actually a high end device, it's just priced like one and is getting smashed hardware wise by multiple companies.  They could have spent those resources on releasing 2-3 low to mid range phones...

[hary536]

Oh ya one more think i would like to say is that, they should definitely try to introduce less number of phone models in a year and try to deliver best experience with those limited models.
That will make their life easier. 

What would you say for Apple who introducted the same iphone 3g for $99 when lot of consumers would have locked into iphone 3G just before couple of months for $199.
Also, i agree with other poster, that 5530 is meant to compete in lower end phone segment in emerging markets like India, China, etc.

Also, N97 was released to compete with Apple and others, as they can't also afford to stay out of the game in higher segment. Apple is competing only in higher segment. Nokia is competing in all segments from lower, mid and  higher ends.

Also, if i was Nokia think tank member, i would like to afford to lose one customer like you who is dissatisfied with a new model with a better CPU, in favor of more satisfied customers in lower and mid range market.

Remember its easier for you to say than to do it in practice. I think Nokia is thinking of longer term and not just shorter term for just some customers like you, who are making such a big issue.

[papped]

Also, if i was Nokia think tank member, i would like to afford to lose one customer like you who is dissatisfied with a new model with a better CPU, in favor of more satisfied customers in lower and mid range market.

You're making a ridiculous assumption that one lone person in the world (me) is affected enough by these decisions.  That's naive at best... We will see if the 5530 increases their low to mid market share and earns a lot of profits, just like we will see how the N97 competes with high end devices for the rest of this year....

Simple odds are they will lose more than 1 customer due to this.  Assuming 1 is simply unrealistic.

No worries though, I'll be off this board pretty soon.  Then people can go back to plugging their ears and pretending everything is OK.  If a company is doing really well you don't have to defend it.

[gran turismo]

Well, the N97 is the "5800 killer" for many people... and the 5530 is the "5800 little killer" too?
Nokia Vs Nokia... come on guys!
Iphone just introduce what all the others companies never want to do for fear... Fully touchscreen + faster CPU = Lots of $$$$.
Now Nokia is back, like the phoenix bird
In a few months (Sept) will introduce: N97i + 5900xm (Can be true?)

PS: Video: Yes, 220 x 176@15ps -> Why they put this poor video performance in the 5530? Because: The search of the perfect phone will never ends!

[hary536]

I didn't mean to say just 1 and only one. Don't take it too literally. It was implied that customers like you who want everything and who make such a big issue of another model having higher specs and lower price than previous model.

5530 is being introduced as someone said almost 8-9 months after the 5800XM. Today mobile market is very dynamic with users' preferences changing drastically. Also competition is highest than ever today. And every electronics item's price is bound to drop. This is fundamental principle.For ex: Last year PC's with less specs were pricier than today's PC, with far better specs.
A company can't wait to include all features in one phone(or product) before releasing their new products. You have to release new product in the segment where others are competing with you and are nagging ahead of you. This is what they did to release nokia 5530 to compete against LG's and samsung's lower end touchscreen models. For ex: Samsung Eternity and LG Vu are one of the highest selling models for AT&T in US, and they are free.
I guess, they are planning to release 5530 in this segment hopefully in US and similar segments in other emerging markets.

Always, its not just about profit. As i said, think long term, if they build a good user base now, they can count on them to buy more enhanced products in the longer term.

Also as the Nokia manager said, they are also going to introduce more enhanced features in 5800 like 5530. They will also have homescreen widgets like N97, which probably 5530 won't have. Also 5530 doesn't have 3G, nor GPS(i guess).

I am not a marketing person nor managerial level, just an engineer. But i also think that Nokia should alter their marketing tactics. They waste too much money on celebrities and other stupid stuff. Instead use some more money to increase time to market for their products and enhance them.

You're making a ridiculous assumption that one lone person in the world (me) is affected enough by these decisions.  That's naive at best... We will see if the 5530 increases their low to mid market share and earns a lot of profits, just like we will see how the N97 competes with high end devices for the rest of this year....

Simple odds are they will lose more than 1 customer due to this.  Assuming 1 is simply unrealistic.

No worries though, I'll be off this board pretty soon.  Then people can go back to plugging their ears and pretending everything is OK.  If a company is doing really well you don't have to defend it.

[yoshaw]

The purpose of the meet and greet session was actually to get feedback from Nokia 5800 users. Kind of like a focus group. There were about 10+ of us there during the event and we expressed all our unhappiness about the phone. So here is what I got. Apparently Nokia is aware of the new firmware update we are looking for. So v31 (or whatever it is going to be called) is confirmed coming. Right now they are in the process of testing the enhanced homescreen and kinetic scrolling on the Nokia 5800 amongst other things like camera improvements, response time, frequent crash.. etc. But like I said, its still in the testing process. Bear in mind, the Nokia 5530 does have a faster processor than the Nokia 5800 and also certain hardware inside is different. When asked what is the rough date of the firmware release, Nokia is not able to give a date because they are still a long way in the testing. From the looks of it, its not coming anytime this quarter of the year. Reason? They'd have to release the Nokia 5530 first before anything else. Also, of course it makes sense because the N97 was recently released and they have to let that simmer in a while. But hey guys, chill out! At least Nokia is aware of what we need....

Hope you guys enjoy the photos!

J-Slade

Can you confirm that the enhanced homescreen promised for 5800 will be the same as N97? Because everyone and their granma is blogging your post as a confirmation of 5800 supporting a N97 like homescreen with the new firmware.

Kindly confirm this?

Otherwise you're pretty much gonna bring down the internet with the 5800 users getting upset all across. Better now than later.

[papped]

Can you confirm that the enhanced homescreen promised for 5800 will be the same as N97? Because everyone and their granma is blogging your post as a confirmation of 5800 supporting a N97 like homescreen with the new firmware.

Kindly confirm this?

Otherwise you're pretty much gonna bring down the internet with the 5800 users getting upset all across. Better now than later.

i would be surprised if they were identical...  Seems like the extra resource usage would be a bit much for the 5800

Also 5530 doesn't have 3G, nor GPS(i guess).

Even if it doesn't have hardware gps it'll have AGPS still though (it better, no excuse for it not to).

For ex: Samsung Eternity and LG Vu are one of the highest selling models for AT&T in US, and they are free.
I guess, they are planning to release 5530 in this segment hopefully in US and similar segments in other emerging markets.

Right.  And I've said it before, the 5800 is one of the best values for the money out there.  But they simply did not market it worth anything in the US.  Are they going to do differently with the 5530?  If not, it's a waste of time.  You can have the best phone in the world, but if you don't sell it, market it and let people know, nobody is going to buy it.  Is it going to be subsidized by a US carrier?  If not, then don't bother...

The 5800 could have easily been $50-75 subsidized with rebates in the US.... But if you shoot yourself in the foot with your marketing, the phones aren't the problem or the main factor.

[yoshaw]

Check Boy Genius Report website.

They are reporting as this user meet&greet to confirm a N97 like homescreen for 5800. Check it out here. Would suggest you send a refute asap.

Here
http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/07/19/new-nokia-5800-xm-firmware-to-make-wishlist-a-reality-kinetic-scrolling-improved-camera-and-more/
I've put there report in quotes here.

They're literally reporting your user greetmeet as 5800 getting N97 homescreen. Jesus! lol

Long story short, a bunch of the neat little features found in the 5530 XM are supposedly headed to the 5800 XM in a new firmware update due out some time in the future. Notables:

    * Kinetic scrolling
    * Improved camera performance
    * Enhanced home screen (like the N97)
    * Improved response time

So if you’re still enjoying your 5800 XM but you’ve been waiting for these improvements to make your life whole again, hopefully this rumor will pan out sooner rather than later.

[papped]

well, it's still vague.

"like" the n97 and "enhanced homescreen" doesn't really say anything specific.

[hary536]

I agree with you regarding their marketing shortcoming in US. I myself haven't understood why in the world has Nokia not established relationships with US carriers, when all other phone companies have.
But it is evident, they are trying now more than ever. They are introducing more phones with AT&T, and may be T-mobile and also Verizon in the future. (they said they are investing more in CDMA for US market).
Also, i think its not just Nokia's fault(no bias here), but US carriers, especially AT&T are the culprit too. See Nokia E71x. How AT&T has crippled it by removing some imp. features from the phone. AT&T is controlling Nokia's hardware and even software release in US, else why would Nokia remove frontal camera from E71x? Why would AT&T even remove the clock on the home screen for E71x? (i owned E71x, so know this).
I don't know if 5530 will be released with US carrier. Since if you look at AT&T's history, they try to not offer phones withh wi-fi at lower cost or free. E71x and recent BlackBerry models were an exception.(i think), so that you use their 3G network instead of free wi-fi.

Nokia should definitely do smart and aggressive marketing in US.
But my personal opinion, at any given time, i would buy Nokia 5800 than i-phone and save few hundred dollars and use that saved money for better things for myself, or donate them to needy people rather than throw away my money for a status symbol.
Also one should not just decide on their product by just looking at the marketing, but rather than looking at the product itself.

 
[quoteauthor=papped link=topic=9509.msg74907#msg74907 date=1248071268]
i would be surprised if they were identical...  Seems like the extra resource usage would be a bit much for the 5800
Even if it doesn't have hardware gps it'll have AGPS still though (it better, no excuse for it not to).

Right.  And I've said it before, the 5800 is one of the best values for the money out there.  But they simply did not market it worth anything in the US.  Are they going to do differently with the 5530?  If not, it's a waste of time.  You can have the best phone in the world, but if you don't sell it, market it and let people know, nobody is going to buy it.  Is it going to be subsidized by a US carrier?  If not, then don't bother...

The 5800 could have easily been $50-75 subsidized with rebates in the US.... But if you shoot yourself in the foot with your marketing, the phones aren't the problem or the main factor.
[/quote]